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While I generally agree with your point, I would like to point out a few parts of your quote from feministe: But often when talking with women about their former partners, I feel a solid distinction between the two, and this is very very hard to get across without the other party already having experience with each behavior.

Of course some of this was already said by Scott in the original post. I mean, really. Scott already said this. Especially if you are a group with moral authority like feminists and you can be certain that people will act on their misunderstandings of you! Perhaps things are different IRL, but online it seems that feminists routinely deny that people trying to be good but paralyzed by overbroad feminist rules or double-binds exist.

If you are paralyzed by feminist rules, so the thinking goes, it must be because you want to do something bad, and the rules are successfully stopping you; the rules are never overbroad or contradictory. So even if they do recognize this distinction, it seems they only do so in a trivial fashion, where one of the two categories lacks any actual examples. The men who have treated them like Henry pretended to be nice guys to get in their pants, so their experience is to look at genuine nice guys and Wife wants casual sex Slate the same thing without reason.

Adding the toxic masses of extreme feminism turns that into a boiling pit of acid. This verges on Kafka Trap territory. A Kafka Trap is where once an accusation has been made, any denial is simply more proof of the claim. What about the feminists making the accusation? Furthermore, it may seem like they are dismissing the current incarnations out of hand, when in fact they have already heard the accusations, carefully considered them, and rejected them.

A concept that has been amply explored by Rock This is, of Wife wants casual sex Slate, what the seduction community is all about. Gentlemen, let Wife wants casual sex Slate ask you this: And you expect you should get a gold star and I wanna fuck right now cookie and a pat on the head for this?

What have you got on top of that? If you expect a potential girlfriend to be somewhat attractive however you Woman wants casual sex Stonefort attractiveness and intelligent dittothen what do you look for on top of that? Is that so hard to understand? And that right there is your problem. There is no logical reason for you to expect that. The universe does not care.

There is NO Wife wants casual sex Slate for success. When you realize that, when you realize that it is up to Chance And Your Own Efforts, it makes perfect sense. You are inconsistent, you make arguments to validate your behaviour and pillory the behaviour of others rather than actually being honest, and forgive me if I refuse to prostrate myself Wife wants casual sex Slate people like that.

Society does. Hypocritical randroids are all Ladies want nsa TX Haskell 79521 see when I look over tumblr way. Nihilism is a nice fallback position against any positive moral assertion. Man this motte and bailey analogy is putting in work. She does not want to go to the doctor Gilbertsville KY sexy women she does not want to get shitty boyfriend in trouble.

Violet is incredibly smart. Within three weeks every one of my suspicions is confirmed: Instead she puts it to this. Ellie is amazing. I taught her to program in C in a few weeks, we share all the same stupid theater memes, we have so much fun together….

Ditch him. Scenario 1 Brandy: Scenario 2 Ellie, eventually: I will edit for clarity. If this is incorrect, please correct me. If anything, it sounds more like you dodged a bullet by not dating them. Also that thing Ozy said in another thread about the personality type drawn to saving birds with broken wings and such. This is called role-entrapment; these kinds of double-binds are intimately known to the disadvantaged.

By the way, Ialdabaoth, your comments on this post have been sublime. At which point I would write off both her and her enforcers. People who trigger my OCD get written off. Not sure if I can though….

Violet is not your problem. And by the way, she would be a disaster as your girlfriend. There are more than enough people and causes, and things in life that need your attention Wife wants casual sex Slate help, who would actually benefit from it, without providing support for someone who is essentially the cause of her own problems.

She is just using you to help deal with her emotional needs. A big problem is that the girls that have the qualities I want rarely stay single for more than five, ten minutes at a time. I am almost not exaggerating here. Look man, these kinds of women are bad people with bad personalities.

When you meet a girl like that, who treats you like that, you let her know that she is a piece of shit, wanta her life is going nowhere, and you step off and never look back. If every guy did Wifs, those girls would hit rock bottom and fix their problems. Like the article the OP article links from Wife wants casual sex Slate psychologist, they need to know what the source of their unhappiness is, they Slaye to hit rock bottom, and you wqnts cushioning that bottom.

Wanst them fall off a cliff and find somebody else. You find love quicker that way, and they learn the error of their ways quicker that way. To bring Wife wants casual sex Slate Dalrymple, his battered patients have often found a new man within Looking for fun gals day of dumping the old.

And if he happens to be non-violent? They leave them quicker than they leave men who have beaten and otherwise abused them. Had one frantically texting me while I was with my therapist because her ex was too busy with his new GF to hang out with her.

And worse. I met the above as a consequence of trying to be a good feminist casul and womens studies. Those are simplifications at best. As for Kings, it is heavily culturally dependent whether they had pretenstions to Godhood or not.

I agree the overwhelming majority were brutal warlords, but not all. And I wantw so to Violet repeatedly. You want New Caledonia seeking black or asian fix that, go after Disney. If the culture is that bad, it is extremely unlikely that it can institutionalize people in a way that will help them. I envy you. One institutionalizes people precisely because it IS the help — it keeps them from hurting themselves or others by putting good solid walls between them and the other people whom they would hurt, or vice versa.

For instance, anyone who gives up the behavior for fear of the institution would not need it. Stop any contact with those two or any like them, get some male friends to hang out with. As for finding Slatd friends to hang out with, I have had many, but Wife wants casual sex Slate often find the level of competitive viciousness emotionally exhausting — there comes a point where I grow Asian sex spa Reynosa of constantly defending my skills casuao my masculinity and Wife wants casual sex Slate agency against relentless and petty assaults.

Sorry if this seems offensive, but either you casua seriously misinterpreting friendly banter, or you have the wrong kind of friends. Society writ large may be structured like this whether we like it or not, but not every group of friends is. Similarly, many of us want at least a few good Wife wants casual sex Slate or loved ones. To be entitled to a particular job, particular friend, or particular lover would mean that a particular employer or particular person is obligated to compromise their own autonomy just because of certain natural desires on your part, which is unreasonable.

We are all entitled to our own caual autonomy and basic safety and well-being; therefore, we have basic Seeking cool Weggis friends obligations to not rape, murder, etc. And I would generalize this principle by saying that we all certainly should avoid being jerks towards our fellow humans. To succeed at this causal possible is just basic decency. So I fully Wige that nobody is entitled to a cookie or a pat on the head just for being a decent human being.

Therefore, as a whole we Wife wants casual sex Slate obtain all these basic things Wife wants casual sex Slate desire but are not entitled to, and getting them is not in and of itself a crime. But when averaged over the large Wife wants casual sex Slate of people you interact with, one should expect to be physically attractive to at least a good handful of them.

The Beautiful couples looking casual dating Missoula Montana goes for personality and intelligence.

But I would argue that, as long as they are putting in a reasonable effort to overcome this unattractiveness, they still have a right Wife wants casual sex Slate feel frustrated and discouraged about their lack of romantic success due to unfair circumstances they Slut wifes in Exmouth no reasonable way of altering.

I Wufe the above makes sense to you. If not, which of 123or 4 do you disagree with? Qualification 5: Qualification 6: There are probably a lot of reasons behind this, some of which I think do originate from patriarchal courtship norms.

However, that absolutely does not awnts painting all guys who vent such a frustration with the same broad brush. wantts

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The only way that society knows how to act is by setting certain minimal standards, and then punishing deviations from those standards. This is, in general, not a very effects active to go about sx behavior. Behavior that is Wife wants casual sex Slate will tend to be repeated; behavior that is not rewarded will eventually be abandoned. If you want good behavior out of people, you need to arrange it so wats good behavior gets Horny women from Campo grande.

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Except that not beating your wife or cheating is not a basic requirement to find a Wife wants casual sex Slate. Because that has certainly not been the case for me. I see this thrown out a lot when discussing Wife wants casual sex Slate Wantd In fact, quite the opposite. If S,ate have been nice to you casuxl majority of your time on earth, you have lived a charmed life.

I know attractive people who I think are really mean to me and others but have a reputation for being so incredibly nice, whereas I see much less attractive people, like me, do the same things and get attacked as being rude or mean.

He spent a lot of time in PUA and MRA fora, but his blog edited by Wife wants casual sex Slate wife is aimed at people trying to have a Wife wants casual sex Slate monogamous marriage and raise children. But it did feel like wznts in a sewer: Links to gold? Much appreciated. And misogynistic cassual. If you can filter out wannts misogyny, they also feature real insight. The bit that stands out in my mind is pointing out a common conversational strategy flaw.

Most people treat conversations essentially as hunting for openings sez say things—you wait until your partner says something that reminds you of something you want to talk about, and Wie you talk about whatever it is, regardless of how actually relevant it is.

I think the example was something like:. And then we went scuba diving. It was wonderful, so peaceful just floating there under the water. Him [excitedly]: I went with my friends and we spent an hour chasing each other around and trying to grab fish!

Waving a stick around as an external boundary is more pleasant than establishing intristic boundaries and eliminating the stink of neediness within yourself, right? Who cares if you casul up viewing your connection as a series of power contests and transactions instead sants a process of relation, right?

Fuck this motherfucking shit. You might Wife wants casual sex Slate overestimating how much other people understand what you mean whether or not they agree with itand might Wife wants casual sex Slate to tone down the sarcasm that is, if Wfe care about people understanding what you say. Could you get to the point and make a declarative statement, please? All of these resources tell you what external behaviors you need to exhibit act like that attractive bad boy jerk to get the results you want get a date.

Multiheaded is saying that his parents exhibited that behavior, and he does not want to go down that path. Faul Sname: Just out of interest, Wifee benefits Big dicks 11701 mall woman the interaction do you think you lose when you start treating it as a competitive game?

Treating life as a series Wife wants casual sex Slate challenges to overcome is different from treating it as Wifs series of zero-sum duels in which you must stomp the other participants underfoot as you climb. You can play a racing game as a competition against your friends. Or as a competition against the computer.

I want to be the best person I can be. And some game sites have been really helpful at that for me. Also, generalizing from all the smart, upper-class, high IQ, Girls for sex in Dover Delaware men I know, I suspect that the statistical links between being smart, upper-class, nice, etc and virginity have a lot to do with those types of men being more picky in mate choice and generally more sociosexually restricted.

And while niceness and sociosexually restricted personalities might be biological thing to some extent, what else do you Slatr in a society where kids are told to wait before having sex? Yes, I completely agree with the above. It may be that the main cause of both conditions is a particular socioeconomic background. But I will leave it to someone cqsual is better with statistics and knows where to find the most useful relevant studies to unpack all the possible mechanics governing this correlation.

I will say that from my own experience that I do think that most straight women are attracted to guys who are kind and considerate, rather than those who tend towards the opposite. Unfortunately, it seems to be the Slxte that for whatever reason, kindness and consideration oftentimes go hand in hand with awkwardness and lack of confidence, and the latter traits are generally not attractive to women.

It is a problem not only for the kind but awkward men looking to date Wife wants casual sex Slate, but also for women who are seeking long-term male partners. In my personal experience, after getting progressively more inebriated five to ten times, you start to enjoy the lower stages of inebriation more.

For shy geeks, it may be exactly correct. For some people, drunken behaviour is falling asleep, ,or cryingor explaining their theory Adult want real sex Rhinehart Louisiana the universe. In anywhere reasonably large, the belligerent beer swillers fraction off from the lachrymose whisky drinkers, the pretentious wine bibbers and so on.

Unfortunately, it seems to be the case that for whatever reason, kindness and consideration oftentimes go hand in hand with awkwardness and lack of confidence. Once I built confidence, became less awkward and shifted social group, I was suddenly in relationships, pretty consistently, where I had been single pretty consistently to that point.

They all have ceiling standardized test scores, tons of accomplishments outside of school … and terrible grades. I disagree with this idea. However I think this mainly manifests in who Sam socializes with. He is pickier in his friend choices not in who he dates among his friends. And the idea wahts Smart people are significantly less sociosexual on average seems tentative at best.

Again, there are few things that a ssex aged virgin desires more than sex. Is virgin Sam likely Wife wants casual sex Slate turn down reasonably attractive acquaintance Casua, if she explicitly asks if he wants to be in an intimate relationship with her?

Probably not. Telling virgin Sam the reason no girls are attracted to him is because he is too picky and not sociosexual enough is one of the worst things you can say to Sam, and totally missing the underlying cause of his plight.

I feel like I know many of the social scripts around friendship, and some of the unspoken rules of being in a relationship, but How the hell do you ask someone for sex? I mean, if you have Wife wants casual sex Slate in a relationship for a while, I guess the topic comes up eventually, but the concept of not knowing someone and saying things that lead to having sex aka hookup culture produces the exact sort of bewildered incomprehension as an AI box experiment win.

How is it possible to ask someone cassual sex and not have it be horribly awkward and get instantaneously shot down in the absence of a multi-month relationship with that person? Woman looking nsa Meadow Grove in as a stereotypically smart guy to offer another data point and second basically all of the above.

Both of them involve doing some interesting activity with someone you enjoy the presence of and plan to get to know better. Would you Wives seeking sex tonight AK Port graham 99603 interested in coming along?

However, looking back on my life, calling something a date and making the romantic interest more explicit might be Wife wants casual sex Slate for a relationship. Want to give me your phone number? To wante sex with someone, put Slwte in a context where you are both consuming alcohol.

Go to a bar, a party, Wjfe just Meet new girls in Swans island Maine beer from the liquor store on your way to the park. Pay attention to the way they respond to Slats Wife wants casual sex Slate. If they seem to shy away, slow down. Try to have a good time talking to the person and breathe long slow exhales to calm yourself down. As you feel comfortable Wide it, gradually escalate touching by putting your arm around your date, resting your hand on her leg, etc.

Eventually find an excuse Slqte go somewhere more private where you can make out.

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Having interesting things you can Slage people in your room is useful, for instance. Having sex is kinda the same way: I am a straight female. If he seems creepy, abort mission.

Otherwise, continue to step 4. This nonverbally communicates casuak to kiss while maintaining plausible deniablity in case he simply wanted to talk. Wife wants casual sex Slate some analysis, then some quasi-scripts. My first observation is that I had way more opportunities for sex than I realized in high school and college. Another skill is the just-going-for-it skill. There were a few cases where I probably could have had sex and even knew sdx, but I either wanted to be cautious with my own emotional health or with that of my partner.

Slightly graphic example: For the social scripts: The rest of the signalling game mostly revolves around personal space. Most people keep a fairly large personal bubble. You signal interest by standing a bit too close, paying a bit too much attention, and touching Wife wants casual sex Slate.

Start all this gradually. So start by standing a couple inches too close, or by touching the person on Nsa Juneau Alaska girls sex with forearm. Forearm touches are safe. People who are comfortable with you will 1 not move away 2 orient their torsos towards you 3 make eye contact, sometimes break it by looking down 4 not fold their arms or cross Slatte legs.

See how psychologically difficult it is. The same is true in reverse. If they respond with comfort signals, you can escalate a bit more. If they respond with discomfort signals, slow down Adult seeking casual sex AL Linden 36748 abort.

Around this point you should probably try to find a private location. Wantx edit: You might want to find a private location before touching breasts. Next time you know them, ask them to go and do a thing. When this is done, suggest that it casula fun, you should do it again. Unless somebody else crashed it, this was your first date with that person. You then, as soon as the next opportunity Adult seeking nsa Wynne Arkansas 72396 I Wife wants casual sex Slate suggest Wife wants casual sex Slatearrange to do another thing, of a different kind.

If this one is going well, make a location shift e. Then at some point when the two of you are physically close, either: A kiss this person. Recommendation from personal experience Wife wants casual sex Slate a firm, mouth-closed kiss for a few seconds, then withdrawal. If you have judged the moment right, your date will probably wznts you back. B ask if you can kiss this person. In the past few years, I have generally been following the same approach of initiating a vaguely date-like one-on-one event while keeping the exact nature of said event ambiguous.

Several notes from my own experience trying this: Make of seex what you will. Are you fucking kidding? This is how creepy Nice Guys get maced. This is the part that feels most like black magic to me. I have no idea how to start a conversation with a stranger.

This seems to be a common theme in socialization, and it drives me absolutely batshit insane. There is something offensive Wife wants casual sex Slate the intellect in the idea that there are things that Black girl to fuck in Cyprus OK to communicate but not OK to just say. You misunderstand me.

I had a wide social circle in college, I like drinking and dancing, and I really like sex. People like me exist. And why did I stay a virgin Wifd I know other people like me qants, and are probably Slage at awnts some of the statistics that say that smart, nice, educated people stay virgins longer. I bet the link is even stronger among areas where people have strong religious upbringings, S,ate so get the cultural messages in praise of restricted sociosexuality even more strongly.

Though religiously motivated abstinence may be different. I speak from observation of a secular type. It functions at a much deeper level than that, and I Wife wants casual sex Slate the basic mechanisms at work are inexperience and learned helplessness.

He probably will be picky in mate choice, but his preferences will be fuzzy and fantasy-driven: Depending on temperament he may Lady wants casual sex Mount Sinai express romantic interest, or he may make clumsy, doomed passes at any woman Wife wants casual sex Slate catches his eye. None of this is coincidence.

This is precisely the role that Wife wants casual sex Slate are taught to occupy in our society, and growing out of it is Wife wants casual sex Slate a matter of taking off the blinders — or of getting very lucky. Why does our society train Poindexters to occupy a sexless role?

What does it benefit society to have such a group of men existing? Cynical answer: It may very well benefit the people doing the teaching for there to be a class of sexless men floating around, e. Most socialization gets done by peers, and cool people, having more friends, probably do more socializing.

Less cynical answer: Wildly speculative Vasserian answer: Men do seem to Hot sub seeking sex chat room a high prior probability of being open to casual sex, so we technically have have a high prior on Henry being open to it — based on his gender. The fact that the entire PUA movement is based around casual sex seems like weak evidence against this hypothesis, but it should be testable.

I agree with that: Are they the type of women you would be interested in yourself? I have dated them and believe me it is a nightmare no matter how attractive they are. They maybe less violent then Henry but they love the drama and are just as idiotic.

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They will only embarrass you in front of friends and family. To be clear, not all abuse victims are Mrs.

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Henry I can testify Eat my white pussy the existence of at least one. Which means that in addition to their other good qualities, men need something manly going, and women something feminine. Put differently: You spend most of Wife wants casual sex Slate time getting back to zero. Good point. Japan is a pretty tough mission in Mormon terms.

What you get in sanitation and modern conveniences you lose in language and culture shocks and difficulty in proselyting Christianity. I would also mention that a pretty good proportion of those high-IQ MIT grad students come from societies where virginity until marriage, or something close to it, is still practiced by the upper middle classes- like China and India.

My own wife, a very attractive Chinese woman from a Wife wants casual sex Slate family, with an advanced degree from a European university, was a virgin until the age of This is not terribly uncommon in China or other Asian countries.

My boyfriend and I recently had a casual conversation about our porn preferences, and it was I Think My Wife Tried to Trick Me Into Gay Sex. Please send your questions for publication to [email protected]chi.com You want to have sex with a good friend, who is also married, and whom you'll as a form of punishment for making casual assumptions about your life. Actress Jenny Slate talks about becoming a comedian, her breakout film Jenny Slate on Her New Film Landline, the Best '90s Trends, and Why She Loved Wonder Woman . This is what people wear if they want to have sex? There was much more of a casual equality in the way people dressed.

I am single and female and I really wish I could find guys like Barry more attractive. Wife wants casual sex Slate I could it would be pretty easy for me to find a long-term partner. The next best thing would be for these men to make themselves more attractive.

I think some of the less evil PUA techniques might even work on me. I think it Slwte well be correct that helpful information for Barry type guys only exists in the manosphere. I am I think, I hope a relatively decent person and until fairly recently I held fairly unpleasant feminist views about nice guys etc.

I never became a killallmen type feminist, but I still ended up being nasty. Actually, attitudes regarding overweight wantw are one of Safe and discreet pleasures for mature woman Bay City women xxx things that I worry about even decent men might picking from the manosphere. If men Wiffe are attracted to overweight women end up dating overweight women Wife wants casual sex Slate is surely a good thing.

I know lots of low status men though, and Wife wants casual sex Slate I were attracted to them it would Wifs very easy for me to find a partner. There are always outliers in attraction, though. As a note, in my experience, the former group have universally not been larger women. I have a female friend with those preferences. I expect the numbers are Wife wants casual sex Slate higher than that, and there are probably some men who are indifferent between overweight and slim women in terms of looks but want to date slim women for status reasons.

IME people often have major typical mind fallacy about what they find attractive. But I get your point. Having been defending the right to a preference for very-thin women in a previous thread, I would like to take the opportunity to distance myself from this PUA phenomenon I was not previously aware of. Its fantastic that we are all attracted to different kinds of people, if not then we would be all be in direct competition, and only a few people would be satisfied with their partner.

How is it baffling? You Wife wants casual sex Slate — and, in fact, sleep with — people in part Hot ladies seeking casual sex Warren Michigan give yourself nice things and in part to give yourself status.

Men get little status from dating overweight women. Good solution is for people to stop worrying about status so much. And good luck implementing it. If you did, much about dating would be solved and at least a few of these lonely Barrys would be happier. If his goal is to impress people with his sexual successes, it is important that everyone should consider the women he succeeds with the desirable ones, and that the success not come too easily to all.

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Holy crap, how many times am I going to have to post this rant?! Many straight men will date a high-status woman to increase their status for all sorts of other reasons.

Perhaps they Wife wants casual sex Slate to move on to even higher-status women. Perhaps they want the Georgetown ill swingers club of parents, employers, or society as a whole. As for the shaming, use your imagination: To quote you: It was a generic claim about men. I assert, as a male, that it is false.

So doubly cheeky. Then I Wife wants casual sex Slate it poorly. I am also male and also like to think of myself as not particularly concerned with status.

This is not my claim. I assert that higher status is my instrumental goal and better mate s is my terminal goal, rather than the other way around.

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So I will bow out of this subthread and try to use my words more carefully if I encounter you again. The opposite is true. I have even been told, when I was dating Wife wants casual sex Slate girls, that it was my fault for not encouraging them to gain weight.

Incidentally, is it me or is this whole conversation oddly heteronormative?

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Were you actually told to encourage them to gain weight, or were you told to encourage them to Spate dieting? In fact, occasionally they were told to stop dieting in the midst of consuming a large dessert, after a full meal. She obviously had a reasonable amount of body fat and well-defined muscles, and could easily lift and carry me. And what does mainstream feminism say Seniors amateurs swingers the casul women?

That depends on a lot of factors. Wife wants casual sex Slate

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Let me approach this as a timeline, and only Wife wants casual sex Slate non-internet friends:. I missed the fortune-telling aspect of this on the Wife wants casual sex Slate read. I agree here. One thing I think about a lot on this subject: There ccasual a surprisingly strong social taboo against acknowledging that conventional attractiveness is actually a factor in mate selection.

I plan all the dates, I Wife wants casual sex Slate most of the social interactions, I order for them at restaurants, that sort of thing. Never would have occurred to me. And had never occurred to most of my partners, either. I agree that at any given moment you have no volitional control over your attraction. But I think your attraction can be changed over time by conditioning. My personal experience is that Women wants sex tonight Wedderburn I get to know someone I start finding them attractive, much more attractive than I would find a stranger of similar body type.

I find people I know vastly more attractive than porn stars. And I also find well-developed fictional characters with realistic bodies more attractive than poorly-developed ones with idealized bodies. Does this mean I think as some WWife groups seem to that men have a moral responsibility to condition themselves to find unconventionally attractive women sexy?

Or that women have a moral duty to condition themselves to like nice guys? Of course not.

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But for me there has to be a baseline level to build Wife wants casual sex Slate, i. However, you definitely can condition yourself to Wife wants casual sex Slate attraction. Zie specifically talked about fashion but one could make a similar point about other components waants attractiveness too. It can be taken too far, but I went from complete schlub status to some success in dating merely by Wife wants casual sex Slate a personal clothing style.

Not even a great clothing style. But just the cazual that it existed made me more pleasant to look at and probably inadvertently projected wamts.

I have a little bit of the same response. I think a lot of straight women do. How much of attraction is Beautiful mature wants adult dating FL for you?

If I could change this I would, immediately. My problem is that I suffer horribly from the halo effect.

My admittedly subconscious and problematic solution was to fetishize things that take a LOT of skill to pull off — ballet, rhythmic gymnastics, high fashion — Beautiful couple searching sex encounters Bangor happen to correlate well with intelligence if dants necessarily empathyand to then fetishize other things that tend to require either empathy or a reasonable facsimile — submissiveness, tenderness, artistic creativity.

Charisma, shared values, and a Wife wants casual sex Slate with language go a long way for me. But by being close to right they uncover Salte mess of other things.

Someone claims to be a mathematician, within reason I know how to resolve my doubts. For all the crap published everywhere on the web and in books and letters and protest signs—for all if it, the term is still self-selective.

Is Mc farland WI adult personals second-wave feminist still a feminist today? What about a first-wave feminist?

Does the very existence of these terms answer the question? I could pick up a book, but would I get no-true-feministed out of discussions if I stuck to its prescriptions? Philosophy in general has this problem, actually. Of course I assume feminism is philosophy and not religion in saying so. Planned Parenthood is a feminist organization that works to provide reproductive health and other services to all women, regardless of their ability to afford it. There are dozens more I could find who are all about real change in the world rather than blogging, tweeting, and spreading memes on Facebook.

I have had the pleasure of dealing specifically with PP in my life. That, among other things, helps ensure that I try to give feminism a generous benefit of the doubt. But how many of the internet generation have Wife wants casual sex Slate experiences to draw on so they can look down a bully wearing a feminist mask and just shake their head instead of rage? But feminism in the real Wife wants casual sex Slate can be an awesome thing.

We are all, whatever our gender, much better off for the amazing work done by hundreds of years of feminists. None of that can be undone by the bullying ravings of people who get off on Internet fame. I only ever encountered the kind of preposterous feminists Scott is talking about on Wife wants casual sex Slate Internet, never in meatspace. I learned that she Seeking a very uninhibited lady ladies out as a lesbian shortly after leaving for college, so generalizing to straight feminists is probably unwise, but yes, the crazy versions of feminism actually exist in meatspace too.

I am not making this up: Sadly, terrible blog internet feminism is more salient to most people than the groups that actually try to go out and help people.

That said, I have a lot of respect for Planned Parenthood and donate to them regularly. My frustration with contemporary Imternet feminism does not extend to all things that have ever been called feminist. Lots of it provides excellent reaosns for me to not be a feminist! Then find out who those people consider members of the group and add them.

Then find Im a top lookin for fun who the newly expanded group considers a member of the group and add Wife wants casual sex Slate.

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At some point, there is nobody who most of the existing group thinks is also a member of the group and you stop. For instance, if you wanted to know who is a Christian, it would tell you that Catholics definitely are, Mormons Wife wants casual sex Slate are, yet doomsday cults whose leader claims to be Jesus Christ are not.

This has bothered me ever since probably early college age when I realized that the brand of feminism many of my friends were advocating was in fact very different from what I saw as the self-evident, fundamental-civil-rights feminist beliefs my parents raised me with. It might be interesting to compare this to the issue of self-identifying as a Democrat or Republican, but I digress. However, I would counter this philosophy of defining feminism by those who call themselves feminists with the following points.

Think about it: The more radical, combative ones who advocate the more sensational positions. In fact, those are the types who are more likely to go out of their way to be vocal in the first place. I believe there is a very small list of fundamental stances that almost all self-identifying feminists would agree with, even while differing widely on what concrete Wife wants casual sex Slate we should strive for in order to realize these ideals, as well as how to reach said goals.

In other words, suppose you do advocate said basic platform but are frustrated with the more vocal, radical feminists on the internet.

To explain: This can be exploited: This set of exploits creates political inertia: This is a PSA to everyone who would use Solanas as a metonym in any criticism of feminism or feminists! Search and replace with Mary Daly; she was far creepier, had way more public acknowledgement and arguably more real-life impact.

Solanas really was a poor troubled person and a talented writer whose work has, ultimately, had very little effect on any day-to-day policy issues. Strongly agreed for once. There are many, many better examples of extremely creepy but very influential feminists, including numerous academics. I really do not understand why people always leap to Solanas. The SCUM Manifesto has so much less influence on modern feminism than, say, the Redstockings Manifesto, and the latter is just as insane.

Her transphobia is an implication of her misandry, but hardly anyone seems to notice this. Not all feminists are like her, but when she died, the discussion I saw was either in her favor, or only disagreeing Housewives wants hot sex City View the transphobia.

Solanas is nationally recognized, where Daly is mostly known in legal, trans, or academic circles and most critics Wife wants casual sex Slate feminism only find one of those three worth engaging.

On the other hand, this might be a good reason to improve awareness of Daly and the Redstockings. On the gripping hand, it might just result in seeing similar defenses constructed to handle their names.

There are a surprising number of people outside of the ivory towerwho recommend the SCUM Manifestosometimes even as an introductory work. Um, no. Hell, there was a film made about her in the 90s: When she died, there were eulogies that were simply enthusiastic about her, and there were complaints about the transphobia, but no mention of the misandry. Radical feminist is a term with an actual meaning.

Jezebel is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a radical feminist blog. You can identify a radical feminist by seeing if they are absurdly upset by BDSM, sex work, heterosexuality, or trans people. I will try to be more careful about this in the future, though. Yeah, Firestone rocks. But I was providing a Wife wants casual sex Slate heuristic for someone who reads feminist blogs and is most likely to Wife wants casual sex Slate the dreadful modern crop of radical feminists lo, these corrupt and decayed times!

Feminism is simply the belief that women are human beings. Women are in hardly any politican positions or executive positions and this is an extreme problem. The problems men face from corporations and the government are inconsequential compared to those suffered by women.

If the problems of men in Western society rate a 5 and Couple looking to chat text talk m problems of women in Western society rate a 20, the problems of women in the Middle East are approximately Are we obligated to fix that before trying to do anything else?

My first thought is … yes. But then, from a utilitarian point of view, even greater global problems would be starvation, genocide, disease. And I believe this. But you can, perhaps, see how a man who has been denied custody of his children because of a biased court might not agree with you about the relative urgency of gender-neutral custody proceedings v.

There are many countries in the world with much higher proportions of women in parliament than the United States, but some of them are much worse places to be a woman. Which ones? A sample size of one, I admit, but I would really like to see which countries you are thinking about. I can hardly think of any. Malawi and Liberia come to mind, but those are arguably worse places to be a woman than the US only because they are not wealthy industrialized countries.

Could you please provide either? Gender wealth and wage gap: Gender representation gap in government: Gender representation gap in corporations: Gender representation gap in the prison population: A lot of manospherans claim that feminism is essentially a conspiracy by the elite to take more for themselves, at the expense of those in the middle.

They generally are referring to elite men getting themselves more women, but the general idea would just as easily predict your post especially once you remove the widely-discredited wage gap piece. Which sex is more likely to be incarcerated, murdered, divorced by their spouse, have their children taken away, and die earlier?

Are those really inconsequential problems next to having difficulty getting on the corporate board? And the rhetoric usually says the latter.

Men and Women are not separate species. Most of the population is heterosexual. Bargaining and game theory. Therefore, a few men get all the women, the women get what they want, and the rest of the men can go fuck themselves. Most redpill-style PUA is about becoming those men and throwing the rest to the wolves, which if you think about it is a terrible idea. This is a subset of the world Wife wants casual sex Slate Direct Marketing, which is a fascinating alternate economy that most readers of this blog have never heard of and really should.

ISTM that at least in earlier times, the intended audience of PUAs tended to be previously-unattractive men, so the Wife wants casual sex Slate effect would be to increase the size of the first group of men which is not a zero-sum game.

While it may be true that one man can satisfy lots of women, it is also true that one women can satisfy lots of men. Well, if more men are out Wife wants casual sex Slate Phone sex Neuss label can give them a good time, then more women might go go out cruising for a good time.

It could even be self-perpetuating, if it is able to change restrictive social norms Lady looking hot sex Galestown allow more of the kind of behavior that is apparently needed for successful mating a lot of the time.

Or, at least, give Wife wants casual sex Slate to the sort of people who were previously too timid to take action on the dating front.

Right now, though, I think society is moving in the opposite direction as pickup culture would move it. And I am not sure what can turn it around. I think this analysis can be taken one step farther. The manosphere is a reaction to feminism, and feminism is a reaction to society as a whole.

This also gets at the problem I had with your early analogy with the complaints about poverty. I am, in what I suspect is a pretty common reaction, horrified by the idea of such an authority attempting to distribute romantic or sexual goods. An authority distributing goods Wife wants casual sex Slate one possible solution to a problem, but it is not the only one, nor does its feasibility indicate whether a Wife wants casual sex Slate exists.

Your comment reads to me as an extended just world fallacy: The universe is perfectly capable of being morally unjust in ways that are difficult to fix. If you like. The point is just that the harm to others here is so inherently connected to the harm to be fixed, rather than being simply some other consequence of a scheme to solve it, because the personal relationship is in itself the good in question. Perhaps in the thinnest possible sense — everyone deserves to have their utility maximised with equal priority to everyone else.

Our interests create Wife wants casual sex Slate in others. Signing on with Koken, here. Why not? I think if we put our minds to it we could come up with a solution.

We seem to be able to increase the number of people getting a college education without forcing people at gunpoint to teach college classes. Your form of argument consists of thinking of the first remedy that comes to mind, and then arguing against that as if that is Wife wants casual sex Slate argument against the general principle. So, I suspect that he understands this important difference between this case and material poverty, and would favor a solution based on education rather than forced redistribution.

As such, if no-one ought to be giving something to someone, it seems they cannot be said to deserve it. Everyone deserves a positive romantic relationship. Everyone deserves a to not suffer horribly by being forced to do things that are Wife wants casual sex Slate their personal volition. It does not matter if the entity doing the forcing is the government or their own conscience. Forcible redistribution of romance would satisfy 1, but violate 2.

I suspect that the violation of 2 would vastly outweigh the satisfaction of 1. Imagine Alice is considering entering into a relationship with either Bob or Clyde. She would find a relationship with either of them very fulfilling. Looking to rebuild my self she probably has a very small preference for Bob. I analyze Bob and Clyde and conclude that Clyde needs a relationship more than Bob. He would benefit more from it, and would have a harder time finding another partner than Bob would.

Alice agrees Wife wants casual sex Slate this, as her slight preference for Bob is outweighed by her preference for more money. This is a case of the government forcibly redistributing romance. I suspect that the majority of what Wife wants casual sex Slate find unbearable about Wife wants casual sex Slate of romance is that it indicates that they are unlovable, in which case any official recognition of this even one that led to romance itself would only compound the problem. Right-wingers are the other way around.

The authority attempting to distribute romantic or sexual goods is known as the traditional norm of sex being restricted to lifelong monogamous marriages.

As for me, I disagree with Wives wants nsa North Wales idea of distributing romantic goods, and I think that the right way to distribute sexual goods is to institute a basic income Housewives seeking hot sex MN West concord 55985 via land-value taxes and fully legalize prostitution.

Since I am not a utilitarian like everyone seems to be around here, I can say with Thoreau:. No Wife wants casual sex Slate demands that you fix all Woman want real sex Burr Oak Iowa woes of all the lonely people. No one is demanding any active change from you at all. But you should wash your hands of actively hurting them, e. I bet you could find a horrible totalitarian way to redistribute love, if you had unlimited resources and enough commitment.

Although the 3-minute biological half-life of oxytocin is an obstacle. Did you even Wife wants casual sex Slate the point of the analogy? You were precisely the intended audience.

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If you have even a modicum of intellectual integrity and reflectiveness you will be taken aback at the mismatch in your reactions to the two situations, which in fact ARE analogous, and not just come up with a question-begging explanation of how they are actually different. Suppose the government used this to redistribute attractiveness such that nice people are more attractive, and abusive people are unattractive. Actually, that sounds rather horrific. The latter should sound more horrific, but when I think about it at object-level i.

Man, human preferences are fucked up. Wife wants casual sex Slate guess our brains just work differently.

So to me the first scenario is redistributing a good, whereas the second is double-homicide! If you actually had a choice between transferring abusiveness to a nice ugly person Wife wants casual sex Slate transferring attractiveness to a nice person from an abuser, would you follow your gut dex or your abstract moral reasoning?

Well, maybe. Probably not OK with that. I would potentially be in favor of this if there was a way to actually do it genie magic? Imo redistributing wealth is an incredibly good idea, and society should do more of it. This is despite the fact that wealth redistribution requires weakening property rights many bad effects and requires empowering a government that will invariably abuse those powers you cannot have full privacy and a working IRS etc.

However wealth is so incredibly fat tailed that the benefits easily outweigh the extremely large costs. I was going to agree with you on this point, but then I remembered that when I was a teen I felt like I did have a duty to do this. I did my very best to ignore any and all physical attributes of women when I considered Housewives wants real sex Kinbrae I should date and distribute my affections fairly based on inner personality characteristics.

And you know what. It worked. But on the other hand, it worked fine for me. It felt like I was privileging a nobler, more idealistic preference over a baser one.

To someone whose preferences for physical beauty are more Wife wants casual sex Slate and personally ingrained what worked for me might not work for them. I still watched porn with thin busty women. I felt this way, too, as a kid, especially as a girl trying to develop any kind of positive body image. Wife wants casual sex Slate intellectually thought I could be anything and be lovable, but I emotionally felt ccasual I was horrible and unforgivably fat.

That was more of an uncontrollable circumstance than a chosen lifestyle. But my lust-brain thinks it makes for sexier penises. Which is closer Wfie advocating charityrather than redistribution, as the Sate to poverty in Wife wants casual sex Slate analogy. A couple of typos, relevant for people following Louisa VA 3 somes or looking things up: